AHOY,
8/13/11 GOD DAM; believe me I here you i.e. enough updates i.e. changes but this info too was worthy of mentioning it way down the way i.e. dam near to the end of the post. Its about one of the contradictions of one of the so called guerrilla's weaknesses.
8/10/11 11:13 okay okay already, but I did realize a very important point to bring up about all this talk about tactics being amateurish etc. see up date below.
8/10/11 10:09 hours, LOL Like I've said a don't mind laughing at myself and I'm not perfect. See update below on Alexander the Great.
And one other quick note I've realized that the copy of my Fragmented Fighting Facts on this blog is not as updated as a copy I posted on the Strategypage site mouths ago. However that copy is trash as far as the formatting goes i.e. the thread template did not allow for any text clues like italics, bold, spacing etc. etc. so its just a long none stop bunch of sentences. ANYWAYS! I may have refereed to some info here or there that is not in the copy posted on this blog. I'm working right now on the latest update that well be out soon i.e. I'M BUSY! Also see correction below about Alexander the great.
8/10/11 08:54 hours, update below as usual high lighted in green.
Here I believe I got this information from “Sniper Flash Cards” site or a link from that site. I have seen all this info before on other sites too. I have rearrange some of it and edited it too, so I could make my points and keep the post some what shorter.
All this info refereed to in my Fragmented Fighting Facts well be noted in Reference notes in my latest update do out soon. So I don't specifically note all locations in this post of rules and detailed notes.
My main point here is that its all western media hype. The so called "lessons learned" are actually being relearned and then swept under the rug i.e. conveniently forgotten, stored in file 13.
How do I know this, its all in Fragmented Fighting Facts i..e. my collection of combat rules I have put together over the last 30 years.
It dose not matter but it gets my attention, i.e. actually its been more like, 39 years I was only about 11 or 12 years old when I pick up that first book on the French and Indian wars. Its contained those "Roger's Rangers Rules", that started it all for me. I'm 50 years old now, time dose fly.
One last thing about these so called "lessons learned" papers/reports. They almost always deal more with operational or strategic information. And like I've said about the old saying of only armatures talking tactics. You can go to any library and fine isle after isle of books on Strategies of every commander in history worth noting. But try and find a book on tactics, not just tilted tactics but about tactic.
My point is so why dose the system, print all the books about the so called crown jewels? IMO its because they (Strategies) are really more like Ass holes. They are the mental quicksand to stall the public's thoughts. Chew the cud sheedhood, crew the cud.
Its the tactics that win wars, those little things that matter.
And some say tactics as doctrine is 2nd generation, as if they have those generations right in the first place.
I say you must have tactics as your doctrine and then you add your special touches of individuality with your imagination and creativity that hopefully well turn the battle in your favor. To suggest its all about creativity up front leaves you at a point were its "kay surrah surrah" what ever well be well be and hopefully I well reinvent the wheel before I am killed.
One last point here I feel is worth mentioning, and that is some of my best original work, found at the very beginning of Tri-F and that is my three golden rules, they are like supervising a consent consideration.
1) There well be times for exceptions to the rules; due to circumstances. You well learn this through experience.
2) Avoid setting patterns; from time to time, you should conduct yourself in an unorthodox manor as apposed to an orthodox manor. Make a habit of considering if not choosing alternatives to unfolding situations.
3) Think like the foe; for instance recall and consider your offensive knowledge when in the defense to predict your foes offensive plans.
This is the best you can do to avoid patterns, you don't level street fighting up to every members creativity. Just like you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Here the info from the site or link;
Chechens had a fixed method of conducting ambushes, based on the 25-man group, composed of three mobile squads of two heavy machine gunners, two RPG gunners, one sniper, and three riflemen. Three of these 25-man groups (supported by an 82mm-mortar crew with two tubes) would conduct an ambush as a 75-man unit. Three of the eight-man squads would serve as a “killer team” and set up in three positions along the ambush route. They would occupy the lower level of buildings in the ambush zone to prevent being wounded by incoming artillery. The remaining fifty men would occupy blocking positions to ensure the entrapped Russians could not escape and to prevent reinforcements from entering the ambush area. To counter this tactic, the Russians would conduct extensive artillery fire on a proposed route of advance, attempting to reduce buildings along the route to rubble. This method proved effective, although on occasion the rubble served as excellent ambush positions for the Chechen fighters.
Organizationally, the Chechen force had seven-man subgroups (armor hunter-killer teams, a number slightly different than the six-man groups reported earlier) that contained three riflemen/automatic riflemen/ammunition bearers, two RPG gunners, one sniper, and one medic/corpsman. Three of these subgroups made up the majority of a 25-man group or platoon, and three of these platoons formed 75-man groups.
Newjaheaddean; is that eight, six and time three squads equals 24 or 25 LOL, its 75 total, no matter what its 75.
Snipers set up in hide positions that supported their respective platoons.
Each 75-man ambush group set up in buildings along one street block, and only on one side of the street—never on both sides of a street because of the cross fires a two-sided ambush would create.
Newjarheaddean; this is why we have an (L) shaped ambush i.e. max fire from two directions without cross fire.
Only the lower levels of multi-story buildings were occupied to avoid casualties.
Newjarheaddean; you don’t want to put everyone on the ground floor. The rule is to avoid the roof and top floor do to indirect fires, not just occupy the ground floor.
One 25-man platoon comprised the "killer team" and set up in three positions along the target avenue. They had the responsibility for destroying whatever column entered their site. The other two 25-man platoons set up in the buildings at the assumed entry-points to the ambush site. They had responsibility for sealing off the ambush entry from escape by or reinforcement of the ambushed forces. The killer platoon established a command point (platoon HQ) with the center squad. As the intended target column entered the site, the squad occupying the building nearest the entry point would contact the other two squads occupying the center and far building positions. Primary means of communications was by Motorola radio.
Newjarheaddean; WRONG, IMO radio silence would have been observed, only hand and other visual signals would have been used in the ambush area just before it was sprung.
Once the lead vehicle into the site reached the far squad position, the far squad would contact the other two squads. The commander at the central squad would initiate or signal to initiate the ambush. Minefields were employed to reinforce ambushes by taking out reinforcing armor and to relieve pressure on the killer platoons in case the ambush bogged down.
Newjarheaddean; this minefield stuff is good, all found in my Tri-F burred in "Vehicle check points".
"amateur" improvements to fighting vehicles and firing positions (such as putting screens on armor made from fine mesh metal netting, or filling cartridge and shell boxes with crushed rock, broken brick, or gravel to reduce the effect of rounds fired at the vehicle).
Newjarheaddean; all good, known and done since Vietnam.
The article also revealed that on many occasions one Russian unit fired on another due to Chechen chicanery. For example, during the assault on Grozny:
Mortars mounted on Kamaz trucks fire one salvo and immediately moved to another area. They have learned to skillfully disorient fire spotters [forward observers], often creating a friendly fire situation?
Newjarheaddean; now here I had to go looking for any kind of detail info i.e. examples. What I found is listed below.
The Chechen force also was very successful in redirecting Russian artillery and fighter fire to rain down on Russian forces. Chechen hunter-killer units would sneak between two Russian positions in the city, especially at night, and fire in one direction and then the other before moving out of the area. Thinking they were under attack, the Russian units would fire at each other, sometimes for hours?
Newjarheaddean; Once again old Vietnam sniper tactics. And found in Tri-F
The Chechen force exploited Russian disorientation by moving behind and parallel to the Russian force once it entered the city?
Newjarheaddean; here I’ll admit to being at a loss. Moving parallel to a large unit imo could be fatal if you find yourself discover and happen to be somewhere at midpoint of a large enemy patrol. Think encirclement, only one way out, if they should decide to go into a skirmish i.e. move to their flank on line with the stern and point moving much faster.
There were few local guides to move Russian forces through the city. As a result, Russian forces ended up in gardens and dead-end streets.
To distinguish fighters from peaceful city dwellers, the army and MVD began looking at men’s shoulders of men for evidence of bruising (from firing weapons) and at forearms for burned hair or flesh from the extraction of hot cartridges. They closely examined clothing and smelled for gunpowder residue. Further, in order to identify a Chechen artilleryman, Russians looked for glossy spots left by artillery and mortar rounds on the bends and cuffs of sleeves. Pockets that carried cartridges, if turned inside out, showed a shiny, silvery-leaden hue. A grenade launcher operator or mortar man was recognized from fibers and crumpled pieces of gun cotton (cotton wool in the original) on clothing.
Newjarheaddean; this is some good info. I can’t recall right now where I put it but there was some rehashing of this type of info out of Iraq just recently. Like I say the media is just feeding the sheephood.
Two other initial Russian mistakes were that they did not always properly employ infantrymen in support of armor attacks (they followed behind armor instead of feeling out Chechen ambush sites)
Newjaheaddean; who really thinks the Russians did not know this rule. IMO they were doing just like the U.S. did lately in Iraq i.e. let the elephant go first we are not up against large numbers of enemy infantry that are going to overrun us.
Grachev underscored that Grozny demanded tactical changes in the way Russian forces would conduct city fights, especially in terms of manning assault units, improving sniper activities, carrying out intelligence operations, and even explanatory work among the population.
Newjarheaddean; sound familiar, i.e. its all so new and different this think call city fighting i.e. MOUT. Sarcasm on!
While command was less centralized than in the Russian force, Motorola radios made coordination possible. Chief of Staff Maskhadov directed his forces to fight in small groups, although this limited their ability to engage in extended combat.
Control was another problem for Chief of Staff Aslan Maskhadov. He stated that many of the independent groups decided for themselves when, where, and how long they would remain in combat. On more than one occasion, Maskhadov noted that local militia forces would simply pick up and go home when they got bored, tired or cold.
Newjarheaddean;
with the above, there was a note somewhere about this so called weakness mentioned problem being a moral and advantage of the Mujahideen or Taliban. It went something like this, “we fight when we wont to, shoot and go home, eat sleep and choose another victum on another day of our choosing” or something to that effect. So I say its an advantage not a weakness. Guerilla warfare is a long difficult road not a drag race.
I found that info ("It went something like this") it was in the same article I believe here it is...
"[Our tactic in Grozny] was to fire at the enemy everywhere without being seen anywhere. We shot, destroyed, withdrew, went home to sleep, returned to start military actions again. No organization or planning. We were independent hunters."
I believe it was stated by Aslan Maskhadov
Troops were required to withstand long periods of intense combat with limited resupply and rest.
Newjarheaddean; I’m not sure exactly how the last sentence was meant it fallowed Aslan Maskhadov’s statement. IMO though it is the regular troops that suffer the long periods of intense combat with limited rest etc.
When the Chechens were able to force Russian soldiers from a building they left at most five of their fighters in the building. After some time, the Russians would counterattack and concentrate at least a company against the building…but having taken back the building they invariably found only a few bodies of Chechen fighters. Also whenever the Russian soldiers took up defensive positions, they customarily positioned several people in every building, thus diluting their forces.
Newjarheaddean; Here in Tri-F I have mentioned that if you must give up buildings give up two or more burning the first one i.e. the one you had occupied for concealment. There is some wisdom in leaving a detail behind at your old defensive site as a decoy. This is also mentioned in Tri-F. And lastly the Russians again are being portrayed as if they did not know Alexander the Greats rule of “if you try to defend every place you defend nothing” etc. Also mentioned in Tri-F.
It's "Frederick the great" found in Defense, over all tips.
In one interview, entitled "Chechen Commander: Urban Warfare in Chechnya," First, study the people. One must understand the enemy in detail, and not only from a military and political sense, but also from a cultural sense. Chechens also used non-combatants to exercise psychological deception on the urban battlefield. They declared some villages and suburbs as "pro-Russian" or non-committed when in fact these same areas were centers for strategic planning, command and control, and logistic purposes.
Newjarheaddean; YES we see this in Afghanistan today. It’s the old “surrender, surrender…but don’t give yourself away, ayyay. Save yourself for me, heee. LOL.
Second, know the territory. Key terrain in a city is at the micro level. Do not rely on streets, signs, and most buildings as reference points. Use prominent buildings, and monuments instead as they usually remain intact. It was better to conduct reconnaissance by day and attack at night, which the Russians did not like to do. When forty Ukrainian volunteers signed up to support the Chechens, they were required to conduct detailed reconnaissance with Chechens before entering combat.
Newjarheaddean; good stuff I would only substitute prominent etc with natural features if at all possible. And the Volunteers thing again you find in Tri-F under Pro-guerilla / insurgency notes with back ground checks. They get to know those trying to join i.e. before they get any info they must supply lots.
Third, study the opposition’s weapons and equipment, and how this equipment might be employed in an urban environment. The most effective weapon system employed against pure infantry was the sniper, a casualty producer, psychological weapon, and impediment to rapid movement. Nothing could slow down a force as much as the sniper. Chechens feared the Russian mortars more than any other weapon in the city, but learned to employed their own with great skill as well.
The Chechen force began the battle for Grozny with individual protective equipment but soon discarded it because it impaired mobility in the urban environment.
Finally, the Chechen force (by necessity) went into battle as light as possible. Mobility was the key to success against the slower and heavier Russian force.
Newjarheaddean; soon to be found in Tri-F, Mujahedeen Strengths: Rugged and highly motivated fighters Tactical mobility, I recall the story of the latest Medal of Honor winner in Afghanistan. The one Trooper mentioned how he ended up in a rut on his back and could not get up i.e. he was not unlike a turtle. Ability to operate at night, most do not want to except we do not own the night in Afghanistan. I recently read a time magazine story about how quite things got at base at night an all the lights being out as troops retired to their quarter as night fill. IMO it do the fact the Machines need it that way so they can guard the FOBs. Ability to achieve surprise i.e. blind in with locals, Familiarity with the terrain, Sanctuaries in Pakistan and Iran. These are the same Advantages the Taliban bookthumpers have today.
The Chechens was their inability to conduct an extensive engagement. The small size of the Chechen units, coupled with their limited ammunition supplies, caused them to avoid large-scale battles.
The Russians discovered that drawing the Chechens into a long engagement would allow the Russian force the time to surround the position and use overwhelming fire support.
Newjarheaddean; here the media is trying to suggest the Russians were choosing the time and place of the fight. And this also allows for a justification of bombing i.e. massive air support so the U.S. can say it’s just the best way and we at least use more precision munitions.
And now I’m going to get back on schedule with updating the Fragmented Fighting Facts.
“I well bet my lucky star” IKYG
G-day!
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